Dear Abdullah,
I am well, my friend. I hope all is well with you and your family as well.
1 – Thank you – I’ll take a look at the link. Having mentioned the belief in seven universes clarifies the belief a bit for me, I appreciate it. To note, anytime you provide a link, I will always try to take a look at it.
2/3 – I agree that no one should worship Mary. The Bible in no place commands or hints that we should worship Mary. That is a widely-held Catholic doctrine (not all Catholics worship Mary of course, but many do), but I am a non-denominational Christian, and do not worship Mary.
“From above, whenever you give a person or anything other than God an attribute or name or action, that is limited only to God, then you are making him as God, and among this, when Christians call Jesus or Mary for help or support although they are humans and can’t hear them, then they are making them ‘Gods.’”
– I agree that Mary is human, and cannot hear us from Heaven. However, as I accept the Old and New Testament as God’s Word, 1st Timothy 2:5, along with Hebrews 7:5, 8:6, 12:24, teach that Jesus is our mediator between us and the Father in Heaven, and is therefore “with [us] always” (Matthew 28:20).
“And now after understanding this concept, let’s see when Christians want to call for their help: what they mostly say: “O Jesus or O Mary help you us” !! And when entering the Churches, what are the statues and Idols that are filling all churches? They are idols of Jesus and Marry.. And what most Christians do when they want to pray in their rooms or in their streets or schools corners, they will stop in front of Marry and Jesus status and pray..”
Abdullah, most Christians do not worship Mary. This belief is generally restricted to Catholics, and I personally know many Catholics who refuse to worship Mary. Likewise, there are many Christians who will not worship statues of Jesus or images – I do not, nor do many other Christians I know. It is true that there are Christians who worship statues and images of Jesus, but it is also true that many do not. The few cannot be representative of the whole, any more than a few Muslims would represent all of Islam. Though the Catholic doctrine generally teaches that Mary is a mediator and is Holy, that she should be worship, I do not worship her, and there are many who do not either.
When I referred to the Qu’ran referencing Mary, Jesus and the Father, I meant this: if the Qu’ran truly was from God, why would he represent the mainstream belief of Christianity? The Trinitarian doctrine is that of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (whom is called a “he” or “him” in John, Acts, the Old Testament, and elsewhere). Nowhere in Scripture does it teach Mary as one of the Trinity. This is a Catholic belief, not one taught by all other Christians, though I am sure a few others hold the belief. But if the Qu’ran is truly from God, my question was, why would he misrepresent such a core doctrine of Christianity? Worship of Mary is not a Christian doctrine, particularly in the Protestant denominations – it is a false doctrine promoted by the Catholic church.
4 – Actually, Muhammad implied that the Christian doctrine of Jesus as the son of God means God had a wife, seemingly demonstrating his lack of understanding of the issue.
On the Day of Resurrection, a call-maker will announce, "Let every nation follow that which they used to worship." Then none of those who used to worship anything other than Allah like idols and other deities but will fall in Hell (Fire), till there will remain none but those who used to worship Allah, both those who were obedient (i.e. good) and those who were disobedient (i.e. bad) and the remaining party of the people of the Scripture. . . Afterwards the Christians will be called upon and it will be said to them, 'Who do you use to worship?' They will say, 'We used to worship Jesus, the son of Allah.' It will be said to them, 'You are liars, for Allah has never taken anyone as a wife or a son,' . . . Allah will say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say twice or thrice, 'We do not worship any besides Allah.'“ (Volume 6, Book 60, Number 105. Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri)
Christianity has never taught that Jesus was the literal offspring of the Father. Hebrews 1:3 calls Jesus the “exact representation of His being,” Philippians 2:6 says that He is “in very nature God,” Colossians 2:9 teaches that “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” (TNIV)
The KJV translates Colossians 2:9 as, “For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,” with the NAS translation, “For in Him all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form,” the Beck, “God’s whole being lives in Christ, that is, in His body.” In John 14:9-10 says, “Jesus answered: ‘Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?” John 1:14 says that “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us,” and John 1:18 says, “…the one and only Son, who is himself God…” The term “Son of God,” in the first century context, meant equality with the Father. Hence why we read, “’I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any good work,’ they replied, ‘but because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”
Consider the following translations: “makest thyself God” (KJV), “make Yourself God” (NKJV), “claim to be God” (NLT), “make yourself God” (ESV), “te haces Dios” (RVR 1960), “make Yourself out to be God” (NASB), “make yourself God” (RSV), “makest thyself God” (ASV), “dost make thyself God” (YLT), “makest thyself God” (DBY), “makest thyself God” (WEB), “make yourself God” (HNV), “te ipsum Deum” (VUL), “are claiming to be God” (NET), “you make yourself God” (BBE), “ti fai Dio” (ITA).
It is apparent that the Jews at the very least, understood that Jesus was claiming to be God. Jesus also claimed several times, including in John 8:58, to be “I AM,” the name God told Moses to use of Him in Exodus 3. Jesus, evidently, claimed to be God. There are many other examples, my friend – even from the earliest of manuscripts, which, as you have seen from the translations, have not changed. This is a quick example of the only kind of “error” we have in examining the over 24,600 New Testament manuscripts:
“Let us suppose we have five manuscript copies of an original document that no longer exists. Each of the manuscript copies are different. Our goal is to compare the manuscript copies and ascertain what the original must have said. Here are the five copies:
Manuscript #1: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole world.
Manuscript #2: Christ Jesus is the Savior of the whole world.
Manuscript #3: Jesus Christ s the Savior of the whole world.
Manuscript #4: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole world.
Manuscript #5: Jesus Christ is the Savor of the whole world.
Could you, by comparing the manuscript copies, ascertain what the original document said with a high degree of certainty that you are correct? Of course you could. This illustration may be extremely simplistic, but a great majority of the 150,000 variants are solved by the above methodology. By comparing the various manuscripts, all of which contain very minor differences like the above, it becomes fairly clear what the original must have said.” (from: http://www.ronrhodes.org/Manuscript.html)
5 - “we are ordered to believe in all God’s books even the previous ones, including: The Gospel, Torah, Psalms, book of Ibrahim, etc.. but we believe they were corrupted during old times because of bad writers or due to bad intentions, but whatever that agree with Quran, then it’s most probably from God’s words.”
I understand this, however, my point was this: isn’t it merely picking and choosing what to consider un-corrupted simply because it agrees with Islam? Aside from this, scholars, archaeological evidence, historical data, and the thousands of manuscripts continue to show that the Bible, contrary to popular belief, has not changed. But to pick and choose what to accept merely because it agrees with the Qu’ran would could be likened unto myself picking and choosing parts of the Book of Mormon simply because it agrees with my doctrines. We must either fully accept or fully reject God’s Word, He has not left us the option of choosing which parts to accept and which not. For further information, see:
6 – “Jesus and all prophets were Muslims” – I recommend this article, http://debate.org.uk/topics/theo/jes-musl.htm, but I am compelled to inquire, do we have any archaeological or historical evidence to back up this claim, apart from the Hadith and the Qu’ran? This is an honest question, not an attempt to mock, simply curiosity.
About Jesus saying “"Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
I have answered this previously, but I will do so once more. First of all, but citing this verse, you must recognize two things: 1) Jesus says “not everyone,” this does not mean that some who say “Lord, Lord” would enter. This means simply that there are those who claim to be Christian, but have never truly followed Romans 10:9 and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. They may do things in His name, but they do not truly follow him or have a relationship with Him.
These are the people who think that by being “good,” they can get to Heaven. But this would be like packing up all of your belongings and show up at the house of the US President, and telling him that “since I am a good person, I am moving in with you.” The President would say, “I am sorry, but I do not know you. I may know of you, but you never tried to have a friendship with me. We have no relationship.” Because of this, without a relationship with the Creator, whom the Bible teaches is Christ, we cannot enter into Heaven just by being a “good person.” 2) This verse contains the phrase “Father” – and by citing it, this verse shows Jesus’ relationship to God as the Son of God. Not a biological or literal Son, but Son in the relational sense. I would not advise quoting this verse as support.
7 - “I may understand your ignorance about Islam and muslims, but I wish that you meet some muslims, so you change your mind and stop repeating such false claims.” Likewise, without a proper historical background, please do not make assumptions about all of Christendom. I am not making false claims, these claims are also recorded by noted Muslim scholars – one particular quote about how several hundred men were lined up, and Muhuammad proceeded to behead them all.
The book I found this in is currently on loan to one of my ministry members, but once it is returned to me, I will quote and cite. I am not saying that Muslims are cruel and war-like, anymore than you would say that all Christians are. But you cited the Crusades as why you dislike Christianity, I was merely answering. I do not condone what happened between either of our religions in the Crusades. But here are a few quotes to show that my claims are not false:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."
Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. .." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah.
Muhammad is ordered by Allah to fight all people until they worship Allah. "Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah." (Hadith, Vol 1, Book 2, #24, Narrated Ibn 'Umar).
Again, I am not trying to make any false claims. There are other texts and quotes I have read from Muslim historians, scholars, the like. It may be best, however, if we discontinue discussion on this particular topic. But please understand, my friend, that I was merely answering your concerns about the Crusades – I am not trying to make Mohammad or Islam look bad or misrepresent it. If I am, I apologize.
“I really feel that we are talking about 2 different religions, I am talking about Jesus religion who came to the Children of Israel who preached and taught for 7 years before risen to heaven” – We are talking about two different religions. Christianity and Islam are distinct. Also, the Bible does not specify that Jesus taught for seven years. Luke 3:23 records that Jesus was thirty when He began His ministry, and there are at least three recorded Passovers in the Gospels, so He was at least 33. Though it is possible that He taught for seven years, the Bible does not necessitate it.
“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. [Luke4:8]”
– Why would Jesus have quoted from Deuteronomy, if Satan was not trying to worship Jesus? It is because this was an indirect claim by Jesus that He is God – Jesus would not bow down to Satan, and retorted to Satan that only He can be worshiped and served.
Both Matthew 15 and Mark 7, which you cited, must be read in context. The Pharisees were trying to catch Jesus in a conundrum, but they could not. Citing Isaiah 29:13, Jesus was showing that they did not truly worship God, but followed their own teachings. In other words, they did not follow the Ten Commandments, but laws that they themselves developed. The Gospels are clear on this – it was not a claim against His deity. Again, picking and choosing verses which you believe support your position does is a fallacious method which we should not do. We either must accept all of what the New Testament says – which teaches that Jesus is God – or reject all of it. We cannot pick and choose which verses to agree with.
“Jesus say follow the commandments to win the eternal life and keep repeating this all his time with Israel, where you say after the last dinner a new religion is formed and Christians has to worry nothing as Jesus had carried all their sins !!”
– Jesus said that those who believed in Him had eternal life. It was not a new religion, but the beginning of the New Covenant, and the God of the Old Testament had become flesh and lived among us, the Creator had to die for His creation to redeem us, because no one else could. Jesus also said that we would face trouble in the world.
“Jesus says that a sign will be given like Jonah’s sign, as he stayed in Whale’s belly for 3 days (alive) the Son of man, means Jesus, will stay 3 days in Earth alive too, you say that he died and resurrected himself as God, and the strange thing why he resurrected himself so hungry !! that he asked for food the first thing.”
– There is nothing wrong with this. It is not I that claimed that Jesus rose Himself from the dead, but Jesus Himself said He would raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-22). Jesus had a glorified body, but it was still the same body, and therefore, in human form, bodily functions were required. If you had been dead for three days and not eaten, you would be hungry as well. The fact that God dwelled in flesh is not impossible, it is whether or not someone is willing to accept it as fact.
“Jesus was praying to God and fasting most of his days, and praying and bowing to God and fearing from his punishment and asking for his mercy and forgiveness, and you say that you are already forgiven and enjoying life with no need to fear from the day of Judgment.”
Indeed, Jesus prayed to the Father because while He was on earth, Jesus “was made a little lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death.” (Hebrews 1:9) Nowhere did I state that I “enjoy life,” life is difficult, just as Christ said it would be. That is an assumption, not based on what I said. Where did Jesus ask for forgiveness? Jesus was sinless.
“Jesus says that he didn’t come to change the religion law: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mathew [5:17], and the first thing that Christians to do that they cancels the circumcision few decades after Jesus and since then the whole religion is changed.”
– Your answer is in your citation. Again, you are citing verses from a Bible which you claim is corrupt – how do you know it is a correct verse? Jesus said that He came to “fulfill” the Law. Exactly. And by fulfilling it, He ushered in the New Covenant spoken of in the entire book of Hebrews, as well as referenced in the Old Testament in Jeremiah 31:31-33. There is no contradiction – by fulfilling something, it brings an end. In doing this, there was no longer a need for circumcision or the ceremonial law, because it was all in preparation for Christ.
“You consider it as proof for trinity, although it’s very clear that God is speaking to Jacob through the holy spirit, and this exactly what happened to prophet Muhammad too, and too many verses in Quran talked about the holy spirit and his support to all prophets and carry messages from God to them, is this a proof for trinity?”
– I consider the entirety of the verses support for the doctrine of the Trinity. I did not say that Genesis 1:1 proved the Trinity, but merely that it is a possible allusion. You have also not explained all of the verses that point to a Trinity.
Consider the following verses:
- "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the LORD is one." (Deuteronomy 6:4, TNIV)
- "The eternal God is your refuge..." (Deuteronomy 33:27)
- "...the LORD is God... there is no other." (1st Kings 8:60)
- "The LORD reigns forever..." (Psalm 9:7)
- "...the LORD is enthroned as King forever." (Psalm 29:10)
- "God, who is enthroned from of old, who does not change..." (Psalm 55:19)
- "Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalm 90:2)
- "Your throne was established long ago; you are from all eternity." (Psalm 93:2)
- "...And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)
- "...the LORD is the Rock eternal." (Isaiah 26:4)
- "Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior." (Isaiah 43:10-11)
- "...apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)
- "Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock..." (Isaiah 44:8)
- "I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself." (Isaiah 44:24)
- "I am God, and there is no other." (Isaiah 46:9)
- "But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King." (Jeremiah 10:10)
- "I am God, and not a human being - the Holy One among you." (Hosea 11:9)
- "...one LORD..." (Zechariah 14:9)
- "Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us?" (Malachi 2:10)
- "God is one and there is no other but him." (Mark 12:32)
- "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Ephesians 4:4-6)
- "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1st Timothy 1:17)
- ..."there is one God." (James 2:19)
From these verses, we can conclude that:
1) There is only one God;
2) No other gods exist, nor has there ever been neither will there ever be another God;
3) God is eternal, everlasting, and unchanging;
4) God is not a man. In past entries, such as "Is Jesus Really God?", "Did Jesus Claim to Be God?", "Answering Objections Concerning Jesus As God" and "Is The Trinity Biblical?", arguments for the deity of Christ, arguments for the deity of the Holy Spirit, and the triune nature were presented and as such will not be expounded upon here. However, it is vital to note that the Holy Spirit, who is referred to in the Bible as a "he," not a "she," (see John 14:15-17, for example) is called God in several passages, including Acts 5:3-4, as well as throughout the Old and New Testament, and Jesus is also called God.
Jesus is called God in John 1, Hebrews 1, Philippians 2, and other similar passages. He is called "our great God and Savior" in Titus 2:13 and 2nd Peter 1:1, Thomas called Jesus "My Lord and My God" in John 20:28, Jesus claims to be God several times (see John 8:58 and 10:30-33, for example). Colossians 2:9 teaches, "For in Christ all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form." Colossians 1:15-17 also demonstrates that Jesus is the Creator. 1st John 5:20 calls Him the "Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." Jude 4 calls him "Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord," and when we examine Hebrews 1:8, we find that it is God the Father who is speaking. Hebrews 1:8 reads, "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever'" (A quote of Psalm 45).
The Bible is very clear that only one God exists, and only one God has and will exist, yet we also find that the Holy Spirit, which is a being, not an impersonal force as some teach, and Jesus, whom John 1:18 calls "the one and only Son, who is himself God", is also called God throughout the Bible. Also, 1st Timothy 3:16 says, "God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up into glory."
Passages such as Matthew 28, Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7, Isaiah 6:8 and others indicate that while God is one, He exists as three distinct - not separate - persons. Amos 4:11 records, "I overthrew some of you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah..." (ESV). God is shown in Amos 4 as having been the speaker, yet God also says that "God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." Without the concept of the Trinity, which is clearly taught in Scripture, verses such as this would make no logical sense. It is perfectly fine for the Father to call Jesus, "God," for Jesus call the Father, "God," and likewise with the Holy Spirit, because each is one person of the Trinity which makes up God.
It is not an illogical or irrational belief as has been postulated, but merely one our finite minds cannot fully grasp, nor are we likely meant to. If we perfectly understood God, we would likely have to become God Himself. God has given us sufficient information about Himself to create a clear picture of who He is, and how He exists as three in one.
Saint Patrick likened the Trinity unto a three-leaf clover, which has three leaves, yet all three are still attached to one stem. Others have used the analogy of water: water can exist as a solid, liquid and gas, and yet in each phase - it is still water. It has also been likened unto the concept of time - time exists as the past, present and future. Each is distinct, yet not separate, because all three are a part of time, which is one. Another analogy often used is a pyramid - one pyramid exists, yet there are three sides. There is no perfect analogy to explain the Trinity, but the internal Biblical evidence for the doctrine of the Trinity is abundant and clear.
“Every time you talk about trinity or try to validate such concept and I had to read your explanation I really feel sick, my mind hurts me and my stomach too, and honestly I feel that I have to vomit !!! I am not able to understand how much time you spend to write papers to try to convince yourself first and others with such impossible and illogical idea, it’s like a bug or worm that is inserted in mind and corrupt it, and really you have to remove it from your head and kill it forever, if you keep thinking in it, it will keep corrupting your mind and your soul. There is nothing in whole universe a thing of 3 naturals together, and don’t think about the egg or ice cube or whatever, and don’t ever think what your guessing that it’s from God, God already and clearly say it in a new revelation that came from him 5 centuries later: “Don’t say Three, STOP IT.”… –
This neither proves nor disproves anything. This is an unsubstantiated allegation and question-begging epithet. So because you cannot understand something, it makes it illogical? There are many things in the universe that are three in one, this claim is faulty. And if you accept the Qu’ran as a new revelation, why not accept the Book of Mormon? I do not accept either as a new Revelation, because God made it clear that His revelation was closed and sufficient. God would not contradict Himself.
Also, my friend, why do you appeal to sickness and disgust as an argument? This is not a rational discussion, but a method used to try to discredit my belief. I have not said anything like this about Islam, at no point did I say, “you people disgust me,” or anything related. Nor will I – it doesn’t help an argument, and it doesn’t do anything.
“to stay thinking and thinking and guessing and trying to convince you with such “stupid and evil” concept like trinity, that even a small kid can’t understand or accept, and gamble your soul forever in eternal torment, it’s your choice.”
– Why would it matter if there is no way to be sure if I can be saved or not? By becoming a Muslim, it would make no difference. And calling the Trinity “stupid in evil” is not a proper way to discuss. Abdallah, I have not called Islam “stupid and evil,” and to demonstrate your frustration at Christianity does not help the discussion at all. It is an appeal to something else, and there is nothing gained by calling my beliefs “stupid and evil.” I have not called yours that, and there was no need to call my beliefs such. “that even a small kid can’t understand or accept” – I cannot understand the concept of an impersonal Muslim God, but I have not called it “stupid and evil.” And there are many kids who have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity – I did when I was young, and I know of many others. The claim is invalid.
Abdallah, I think we need to face a few things:
- We disagree on God’s Revelation.
- We disagree on the Bible’s accuracy, yet both of us quote it as if it was.
- We both disagree on Jesus’ claim to deity.
- We both disagree on the Trinity. I find nothing illogical about it, simply because you may not understand something does not make it illogical.
- We both have different religions.
Now, I wish to continue conversation, but I ask that we not call one another’s beliefs “disgusting,” or “stupid and evil,” and make claims that cannot be backed. Neither of us gain anything, and all that remains is hurt feelings. I should like to call you my friend, Abdallah.
But as for your last comment, I did have a question. About the Madhi, does the Bible say anything about him that I can take the time to read? Merely curious.
Best wishes, hope things are well with the family. Take care, and God bless you! (And if there are any hard feelings, I am sorry, that wasn’t the intention. Merely answering).
-----------------
Abdallah Reply:
Dear Friend,
Thanks for your quick reply, my friend, it’s good we clarified both positions and how each one of us think about other religion, and I will continue to clarify to you about Islam, but I want you to note the following although I know already that you will not accept it now, but maybe if ALLAH decided to open your heart and mind for Islam, then you may understand what I meant.
To clarify to you my idea, I will give you an example, imagine a western consultant whether European or American or Japanese from the 1st advanced world explains to a team from a 3rd world country that is a little bit late in civilization, and tries to explain to them the modern technology or advanced governmental processes or laws, it will be difficult to him to explain, and they may not understand it from the first time..
Please allow me to say it’s the same between you and me, but the inverse way, it’s true that most of muslim countries are late in technology, but our religion is so advanced comparing to other religions, actually it’s superior of all religions because it’s from God, and what you can find and explain and work on it in Islam, you’ll never find it in other religion, because of that many of priests or rabbis or even Hindu scholars, who converted to Islam and studied it well, they become so active in prorogating Islam, some dedicated all their time to teach Islam to non-muslims, WHY’s that? Because they find what they are searching for and find Islam like an ocean of treasures, rich of new ideas, or projects that they can spend time working on it..
Why, I am saying that to you?
Because as I am debating to you, I don’t want you to look as Islam as normal religion that came from desert just like someone had a new idea and wanted to spread it and made a kingdom, you have to put in mind that Islam never will be that success if it’s human made, never, ever..
ALLAH sent his messenger prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to all nations, and he was not to fail, not to lose, not to be killed, not to die before delivering fully his message, it was not accepted, it’s God fighting the Satan himself and with all his followers whether they were demons, human or Jinn devils, it was impossible to fail..
ALLAH says:
They wish to blow out the Light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah rejects everything short of making His light perfect, no matter how the disbelievers may hate it. (32) He is the One who has sent down His Messenger with guidance and the Faith of Truth, so that He makes it prevail over every faith, no matter how the Mushriks (polytheists) may hate it. (9:33)
Refer to all Mankind history, did you ever find an illiterate man who created a kingdom of (1.6) billions of followers that is increasing centuries after his death, by giving them only a book, that his followers still teach their young children, early as they start to talk so they know how to read it first, and how to recite it in their daily prayers, you will never find anything similar, that billions of people who leave their food and drink to fast for God sake only, and to give portion of their wealth for the poor, so our God forgive us on the day of Judgment..
And what the prophet asked us to do? Is to worship our creator without any partner with him, he created the universe and he only to be worshipped, no one else..
Why it’s that difficult to understand that it’s only the Satan who is diverting us from worshipping the God alone, knowing that it’s the only sin that any human will deserve the eternal life in hell for: “worshiping other than God or a partner with him”.
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) told us about a speech of John the Baptist, when he gathered Children of Israel and warned them not to worship other than God or any partner with him, giving them an example of someone who brought a servant and bought him a home, shop and goods, and asked him sell every day, eat and sleep in my home, and at end of each day: give me the profit of your work, the slave did all this but instead of paying to his master he paid to someone else, so imagine how much the master will be angry on such servant. John explained to the people of Israel, this is the example of anyone who worshipped someone else beside God, and the punishment of doing this will be eternity in hellfire…
My Friend,
Please check the following questions and answer them between yourself:
-
- Who created you, is he God or Jesus? The answer surely is God…
- Who created the Earth that you live on, God or Jesus? The answer truly is God..
- Who can benefit you, hear you, or harm you, God or Jesus? God..
- Who will resurrect all creations for the Day of Judgment, God or Jesus? God..
- Who owns the heaven and hell, and will send people here or there, God or Jesus? God..
- So, why the need to worship other than real God, the Creator..
Once, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asked a man: who you worship? He said: seven gods..
Prophet asked: Where are they? The man said: 6 on Earth and 1 in heaven, (i.e. 6 idols with God).
Prophet asked: who can harm you or help you? He said: the one in heaven, (means almighty God only).
Prophet said: Then leave what on Earth and worship the One in Heaven..
The man accepted Islam immediately.
Simply, as it is..
God is the one who creates and causes death, and he who resurrects again, he will question and he will send to hell or heaven, so why to worship anyone beside him?? Unless it’s from Satan to divert you from worshipping God, to be dammed and sent to hell with him.
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2- Now, commenting on your answer that Mary or Jesus, are mediators between you and God !!
Who told you that? Did Jesus said ever pray to me so I convey your prayers to God? Did he ever say I will act as mediator between you and God?? No never..
Actually, this claim is common for all infidels who worshipped the Idols starting from the people of Noah, till the polytheists of Arabia, even you now as you said: we only call them to convey our messages to God:
ALLAH answered you already:
The revelation of this Book (the Qur'ân) is from Allâh, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (1)
Verily, We have sent down the Book to you (O Muhammad SAW) in truth: So worship Allâh (Alone) by doing religious deeds sincerely for Allâh's sake only. (2)
Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allâh only. And those who take Auliyâ' (protectors, helpers, lords, gods) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allâh." Verily, Allâh will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allâh guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever. (39:3)
And on the day of Judgment, he will ask all the infidels, show me the partners that named for me, where all people will deny, thinking that they can lie on God:
And on the Day when We shall gather them all together, We shall say to those who joined partners (in worship with Us): "Where are your partners (false deities) whom you used to assert (as partners in worship with Allâh)?" (22)
There will then be (left) no Fitnah (excuses or statements or arguments) for them but to say: "By Allâh, our Lord, we were not those who joined others in worship with Allâh." (23)
Look! How they lie against themselves! But the (lie) which they invented will disappear from them. (6:24)
ALLAH challenges all polytheists, call your Gods, and see if they can help you, they will never hear you:
Do they attribute as partners to Allâh those who created nothing but they themselves are created? (191) No help can they give them, nor can they help themselves. (192)
And if you call them to guidance, they follow you not. It is the same for you whether you call them or you keep silent (193)
Verily, those whom you call upon besides Allâh are slaves like you. So call upon them and let them answer you if you are truthful (7:194)
So, my advice to you don’t take any mediator or partner to God, there is None, and anyone you name in this life, they won’t help you ever, they are not able to hear you even, and they will deny the partnership that you claimed on the day of Judgment, and leave you alone to face your punishment from God, ALLAH will not forgive such sin ever:
Surely, Allah does not forgive that a partner is ascribed to Him, and He forgives anything short of that for whomsoever He wills. Whoever ascribes a partner to Allah commits a terrible sin. [4:48]
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3- About Trinity, I will explain my answer to you again, ALLAH mentioned trinity in quran:
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. [5:73]
And being third of three, means ALLAH is the God, and the holy Ghost and Jesus the other two but with no need to mention them, similar to Christians’ belief..
But the other verses that I explained to you before, it was question from God to Jesus that will happen on the last day, he didn’t ask him about Trinity, because Jesus is not responsible on this concept, it was developed after Jesus, and never been on his times, or said by him, so how he will question him about a thing that he never done, and the others 2 are God himself and the Holy Ghost, who is the servant of God and who obeys him always, and never met or taught human to worship anyone other than God, he only convey orders and messages between the God and the prophets.
But ALLAH will ask Jesus if he taught his followers to worship himself Jesus and his mother, so to prove argument against all Christians who call Jesus or Mary as Gods, (whether you were among them or not, but frankly I never seen a Christian in a movie or real life, Arab or non-Arab, except that when they are in trouble they really call Jesus or virgin Mary help us!!).
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4- Referring to New Testament
It’s important to note that we don’t believe other than the “true” Gospel that was revealed to Jesus himself that he explained to people of Israel during his preaching and roaming in their villages and towns, all what you are referring from apostles’ messages (Timothy, Acts, Hebrews, etc..) who came after Jesus by decades or centuries, are not considered as God’s words, it’s human work, and unfortunately those are the responsible for corrupting the religion of Jesus who was send truly by God as messenger only, not a Son or a God. And, historically, you must agree on this too, and be aware from quoting from them.
Imagine, if you write a book or letter and after decades, some change it and explain it in extremely different way, how angry you will be, knowing that Jesus warned already that some will come and divert the religion to worship himself “Jesus” falsely instead of God, and I quoted to you before:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [Mathew15:7-9]
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. [Mark7:6-9]
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5- Regarding the Hadith, that you mentioned about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH),
First of all, you have to be carefully choosing you words when talking about the Prophet, if you don’t know him yet, it’s because your bad luck that ALLAH didn’t open your heart for Islam, but if you choose to use bad words whether with ALLAH or his Apostle Muhammad (PBUH), then I have to stop debating as we are ordered to debate with “good” people of scripture not those who are unfair among them, those who talk badly on their God and his messenger they are unfair, and please be aware not to be one of them, ALLAH says:
And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islâmic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilâh (God) and your Ilâh (God) is One (i.e. Allâh), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)." (29:46)
So, it’s you lack of knowledge that you didn’t understand the Hadith, although I didn’t see anything wrong, don’t you all Christians worship Jesus as Son of God or not? Don’t you claim that he is his son, and in your book, it’s written son of God many times, so where is the problem !!
When it’s mentioned that Jesus son of ALLAH, and Allah means “The God”, means son of God that you are claiming, and if you check any Arabic Bible, it will be written Jesus son of ALLAH or Adam son of ALLAH, I will paste to you below in colors too:
فَأَجَابَ سِمْعَانُ بُطْرُسُ وَقَالَ:«أَنْتَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ اللهِ الْحَيِّ!».
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And you see that “God” in green is translated in the Arabic bible to ALLAH اللهِ , son of ALLAH.
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6- Now, changing from saying that Jesus is Son of God, to Jesus as God himself !!
I don’t want to enter into debate whether the concept of Jesus in Catholic or Orthodox is the right one, both are wrong, and we have the right one from God himself who clarified it to us in his book, by own Jesus words when his mother came carrying him for the first time:
Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariyy (a mighty thing). (Tafsir At-Tabari) (27)
"O sister (i.e. the like) of Hârûn (Aaron) Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman." (28)
Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (29)
"He ['Īsā (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;" (30)
"And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât (charity), as long as I live." (31)
"And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. (32)
"And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! (on the day of Judgment)" (33)
Such is 'Īsā (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute) (34)
It befits not (the Majesty of) Allâh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allâh, by saying that 'Īsā (Jesus) is the son of Allâh]. Glorified (and Exalted is He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is (35)
['Īsā (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allâh is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allâh's religion of Islâmic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)." (36)
Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Īsā (Jesus) A.S.], so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying that 'Īsā (Jesus) is the son of Allâh] from the Meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire). (37)
How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error (38)
And warn them (O Muhammad SAW) of the Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not (39)
Verily! We will inherit the earth and whatsoever is thereon. And to Us they all shall be returned, (19:40)
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7- About Jesus being the savior of the world, I agree on that on his time, but now we all have to follow Muhammad (PBUH) the savior of the world now, and even when Jesus came back he will be ruling in the Law of Sharia’a, the one left by prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to all humans, and he will not change anything except 3 things, that Prophet Muhammad told us about.
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8- About believing in God’s words, Yes we believe on them all and not in picking what we like only, and we know the God’s words won’t change ever, but the people who wrote the words of Gods changed them, and these what we don’t believe in, and those followed Jesus and wrote messages that corrupted the religion of Jesus are not among the word of God, and we don’t believe on them..
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9- All prophets were muslims, if you review that whole Old testament: didn’t all prophets call their people to worship only One God, they never mention holy ghost or Jesus as his Son ever, they didn’t mention anything related to trinity in clear words, although they must be already exist since then even before all prophets (as per your concept), didn’t they call their people to obey God’s order, and to put their will down to God’s will, didn’t they were praying and fasting and asking only God for help, didn’t they follow God’s law only ??
This is Islam, and this what prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asked us to do, and Jesus too:
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. [Luke4:8]
Which means literally, the call for Islam: there is no worthy to worship except God, ALLAH. (LA ILAH ILA LLAH).
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10- About the execution of Jews fighters, it’s true story and a sign of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) mercy!!
Imagine, that a Jewish tribe who signed a covenant with the Muslims led by the prophet, so they do not attack the muslims and to fight with them, and in return, the muslims will fight with the Jews if anyone attacked them..
Then when the infidels of Arabia gathered in 10,000 soldiers to attack the muslims who were around 3000, the Jews didn’t fight with the muslims but they broke the covenant and attacked the muslims camp from behind from women and children side, the muslims were not able to defend on both sides, but ALLAH protected them, and when the infidels retreated, the muslim army turned immediately to the Jews and captured them all, so prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asked them: what shall I do to you now?
Imagine what kind of answer they gave to him, they said: don’t judge us, let us choose our judge?
By his mercy, he said: choose anyone, so when they chose one of their very closed allies, he said will you accept my judgment? They said: surely, then he ordered to kill all their men fighters!! then they were all astonished and disappointed…
This breaking of covenant is mentioned in the Old Testament too, in the 70 weeks prophecy, you can check it on:
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11- About the assassination of the 3 terrorists, it’s also true..
And this is a military law who was applied by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and it’s followed now by USA, Europe and NATO too, when they track a terrorist who is preparing for a crime or danger attack, they will not wait till he does his crime, but they will attack him in advance, the same done by prophet Muhammad (PBUH), but the difference that the prophet is much more merciful !!
He asked to attack the terrorist only, not bombing the whole village with all children and women to kill one of the suspects.
The three were: Jewish man and woman, who were collecting killers to assassinate the prophet, and an Arab who was passing through tribes to collect fighters to kill and attack muslims, and by killing those three, thousands of souls were saved and wars were avoided between the tribes.
This also a miracle, as prophet (PBUH) never met those three, but ALLAH revealed to him about them, and gave him their names and how they look like.
The woman did the same as the woman who planned and killed John the Baptist, but prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was not to be killed or died before he accomplished his mission, it was not acceptable by God for anyone who might try or even think to stop the prophet ever..
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12- About he will continue fighting until all people testify that there is no God except the Almighty God:
Yes, it’s true and right too, and what is best than such aim, to let all people leave worshiping humans, animals and stones, and let them worship the only God the only Creator, do you have any honored goal better than this?
Is there a better thing then stopping people from burying their little children in sand just because they are females!!
Is there any other honored goal than this !! (you can see that burying children is still continuous till our times, you can watch it on youtube search for Amazon tribes that bury children, but I warn you it’s extremely painful video, honestly you may cry and wish where is Muhammad again to stop those infidels from doing these bad things)..
And fighting doesn’t not mean killing all people, but give efforts and work in all mean possible, till people confess that they have to worship God and only God, and stop doing bad and evil things (like killing and burying their children in the desert).
And this target is mentioned in Isaiah prophecy, that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is ordered to work and work and he is not supposed to fail or to be stopped by anyone till he reaches his goal:
1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. [Isaiah 42/1-4]
And, it was fulfilled completely on his time, he didn’t die till all Arabia was turned to Islam and they destroyed all their idols.
I want to tell you a story of last tribe that came to him that they accepted Islam, but asked for few conditions, that to keep their Idol, but he refused, to allow them drinking wine, he refused, to allow them commit adultery, he refused, never..
They thought, Ok, but we will not destroy our Idol by oursleves, send someone else do it, he said, OK fine..
As they reached their tribe, a small group of muslims soldiers were just behind them went directly to their Idol, and destroy it, there is no compromise, Muhammad (PBUH) was not to fail not to discourage, ALLAH was fighting too to defend him, he must win, ALLAH says:
You killed them not, but Allâh killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw, but Allâh threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower. (17)
This (is the fact) and surely, Allâh weakens the deceitful plots of the disbelievers. (18)
(O disbelievers) if you ask for a judgement, now has the judgement come unto you; and if you cease (to do wrong), it will be better for you, and if you return (to the attack), so shall We return, and your forces will be of no avail to you, however numerous they be, and verily, Allâh is with the believers. (8:19)
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13- About [Isaiah 29:13] prophecy: It’s the following:
10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
I told you before that it was quoted by Jesus to show that people will honor him by words (saying that he is God or Son of God) as Christians doing these days, but their hearts and their practice will be far away from the commandments that he left with them and taught to the people of Israel.
The other thing, it’s also gives indication to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who can’t read or write, and when Angel Gabriel, revealed to him the first time in the cave of Hera’aa, he asked him to read: he answered him that same words mentioned in this prophecy: “I am not Learned”!!, he was asked 3 times to read and answered the same answer 3 times: “I am not learned” !!
Then Angel Gabriel revealed to him the first words from the Holy Quran ever:
Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists), (1)
He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood) (2)
Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous, (3)
Who has taught (the writing) by the pen. (4)
He has taught man that which he knew not. (96:1-5)
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14- About the contradiction in your speech about GOD, I quoted only 3 examples:
- “the Creator had to die for His creation to redeem us, because no one else could. Jesus also said that we would face trouble in the world.”
- The fact that God dwelled in flesh is not impossible, it is whether or not someone is willing to accept it as fact.
- Indeed, Jesus prayed to the Father because while He was on earth, Jesus “was made a little lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death.”
Some Analysis:
In 1st statement you caused death to the Creator, I don’t know how? And, why? And who can kill or cause to death to the Creator? How much power he has to do that to THE Creator ?????
And in case God had died, then who was controlling the whole universe during that time, who was keeping the balance of all Creations, whether on Earth or on space !! what ciaos can you imagine if all this perfect balanced system of rotating planets and stars, and environmental balance of the world had stopped because his creator who is controlling it had DIED, how such thing is possible !!
And imagine what kind a reason that Creator may die for, for his creation and for what reason !! what the logic in this, did you ever see someone who execute himself for his own car, or chair or computer to survive !! is this logic in your mind !!!
In 2nd statement, that God was converted to flesh to die on Earth and in 3rd statement it’s still Jesus who is praying to father in heaven, so is it GOD or not GOD who converted to flesh or not, did he leave Heaven to stay and being executed on Earth, or is it his Son, or begotten Son, or non begotten Son !!
The only reply on this is mentioned in Quran:
Lo! is it not unto Allah that belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth? Those who follow aught instead of Allah follow not (His) partners. They follow only a conjecture, and they do but guess. [10:66]
Just to let you know, ALLAH is the supreme Power and the Only GOD and Creator of the whole universe, he doesn’t sleep or die, otherwise the whole universe will crash in no time, ALLAH says:
Verily! Allâh grasps the heavens and the earth lest they should move away from their places, and if they were to move away from their places, there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever Most Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving. (35:41)
See you not that Allâh has subjected to you (mankind) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His Leave. Verily, Allâh is, for mankind, full of Kindness, Most Merciful. (22:65)
Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]— (255)
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15- Quoting from Apostles letters:
You are quoting other than the gospels, which are only letters between the apostles who came after Jesus and some of them may didn’t ever see Jesus, like Paul and John, etc..
These Chapters are:
Acts – letters written by the apostles, Luke, john, Paul, etc..
Romans – letter written by Paul,
Corinthians 1,2 – Paul,
Galatians – Paul,
Ephesians – Paul
Philippians – Paul, Timotheous
Colossians – Paul, Timotheous
Thessalonians - Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus
Timothy – Paul
Titus – Paul
Philemon – Paul, Timotheous
Hebrews – unknown, but mostly Paul.
James – James
Peter 1,2 – Peter, Simon Peter
Johns 1,2,3 – John ??
Jude – Jude
So my friend, why you are asking me to believe on God’s words and these are only human writings, unless all these apostles becomes Gods too in your religion..
Frankly, all these letters worth nothing if they contradict with Jesus words in the Gospels, and what they worth comparing with all the verses that you quoted from the Old testament, those of real prophets who were revealed to them by God, there is there is ONLY one God, and then you collapsed all what is mentioned by those Prophets of Gods, because some of “apostles” wrote messages and claimed that God is three !!!
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16- Evidences of Trinity !!
I couldn’t find anything logic in all what you mentioned about trinity, but I was surprised referring to Amos 4:11, that since talking about God in such words, this means that there is more than God!!
I don’t want to surprise you but Talking about God in plural or as second person, is common in God’s books, even in Quran, and I quote to you many examples as the following, but don’t understand from all these that trinity exist in Quran, No, it’s the articulated style of God’s words:
And recite what has been revealed to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Book (the Qur'ân) of your Lord (i.e. recite it, understand and follow its teachings and act on its orders and preach it to men). None can change His Words, and none will you find as a refuge other than Him. (18:27)
"So go you both to him, and say: 'Verily, we are Messengers of your Lord, so let the Children of Israel go with us, and torment them not; indeed, we have come with a sign from your Lord! And peace will be upon him who follows the guidance! (47) 'Truly, it has been revealed to us that the torment will be for him who denies [believes not in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messengers], and turns away.'(from the truth and obedience of Allâh)" (20:48)
[Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: "And what is the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)?" (23)
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, if you seek to be convinced with certainty." (24) [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said to those around: "Do you not hear (what he says)?" (25)
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "Your Lord and the Lord of your ancient fathers!" (26)
[Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: "Verily, your Messenger who has been sent to you is a madman!" (27)
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "Lord of the east and the west, and all that is between them, if you did but understand!" (28)
[Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: "If you choose an ilâh (god) other than me, I will certainly put you among the prisoners." (29)
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "Even if I bring you something manifest (and convincing)?" (30) [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: "Bring it forth then, if you are of the truthful!" (31) So [Mûsa (Moses)] threw his stick, and behold, it was a serpent, manifest (32) And he drew out his hand, and behold, it was white to all beholders! (26:33)
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17- Examples of trinity
Whether it’s 3 leaves, or ice cube, or egg, or pyramid, or any other example, like car that is made of rubber, iron and plastic, or door made of wood, iron and glass, etc..
All these are “stupid” examples of trinity, these are all substances that are mixed together, and you will find billions of such products all around you, but these are not the correct example of trinity that you are claiming to God !!
What you are claiming that he is:
God (divine, immaterialized) + Holy Ghost (Angel, Spirit) + Jesus (Prophet, Mankind)
Therefore, to give a correct example, you may say a creature that is:
-
- Half tree, half human and half animal !! or if it’s difficult:
- Half stone + half tree + half animal, or if it’s difficult let’s take:
- Half lion, half elephant , half bird !!, or
- Half man, half woman, half child !!
Can you see now how such examples are ODD and impossible even to imagine, and really honestly saying every time even now, I have to think about it, my stomach hurts me, and sometimes I need to listen to some Quran or pray just to forget such evil idea..
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18- About guarantee that you are asking about, I will give you some:
In many Hadith, Prophet Muhammad said: whoever believe in Shahada (means there is no God except ALLAH), it will be benefit him one day, (even from hell fire whatever he did)”
In another Hadith, Prophet asked his companion: “do you know the right of God over his servants (mankind), he said: ALLAH and his apostle knows better, Prophet said: “to worship him alone without any partner, and do you know what is the right of his servants on the their God?”, he said: “ALLAH and his apostle know better”, prophet answered: “is not to torture them in Hell fire if they worshiped him alone”
Therefore, guarantee that you don’t worship anyone other than or with ALLAH and stay on such belief till you die on it, and you will be saved for sure, in God’s will.
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19- About the Mahdi, I think yes, he is mentioned in the bible, in Revelation 14:
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. [Revelation 14:1]
You know that muslims fighters, sometimes put a headband on their foreheads, written on it: La ILAHA ILA LLAH, Muhammad Rasoul LLAH”, means: “There is no God except ALLAH, and Muhammad is his messenger”
And you know that the Mahdi will be one of Prophet’s descendants, and this is the meaning that name of his father will be on the foreheads of the muslims.
And the following chapters explain the war between the Mahdi army and the beast army, what we call the false messiah (or the false prophet), till the descending of Jesus (PBUH) as prophet Muhammad (PBUH) told us at night, and some may thought him as Jinn, the same mentioned in the bible but describing him as thief:
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. [Revelation 16:15]
Revelation chapters explain the end times and the fight that will happen near Palestine between Mahdi Army and the false prophet, they are almost the same explained in many of Prophet Muhammad Hadiths, I wrote an article on some of them, you can read it on:
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20 - I want to add also a word about prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the holy Quran:
Please I want you to think deeply in yourself, why an illiterate man came from Arabia, son of Ishmael, has to call for new religion, and he never did a kingdom or get paid for what he had done, he died poor literally penniless, just to make the people of Arabia stop worshiping Idols and convert to one God who is Creator, and stop adultery, drinking, killing, and raping, etc…
Think about that: why he needs to do all this for and for nothing in return, except that he is waiting the reward from God in the afterlife.
And think, how come an illiterate man bring a book of 615 pages, that kind of complex and extremely articulate encyclopedia, that talked about all the following:
1. The ages that passed before, including most of the prophets mentioned in the bible, matching some of their details in the bible and revealing new events happened to them.
2. The unseen and times to come like trouble times, heaven, hell, the day of judgment, Angels and spirits..
3. The creation of universe, Earth, mountains, rivers, oceans, winds, atmosphere, sun, moons, plants, etc…
4. Human Laws covering family law, marriage, divorce, keeping orphans, heritage, engagement, buying, selling, renting, oaths, borrowing, punishments, war and prisoners laws, conflicts, etc.
5. Worshiping laws such as prayer, charities, fasting, pilgrimage, “Zeker” praising God, moralities, being kind and modest, mercy for the weak and the poor, etc..
6. The full logic arguments against un-muslim beliefs, such as: Christians, Jews, Atheists, Polytheists, and Hypocrites..
So, I want you to think how come an illiterate man prepare such book alone, that is the most printed, copied, read and recited book ever on whole world, that is read in billion of times a day in muslims prayers and listened to of billions of hours a day, and taught to millions a day from 3 years old child till people in 90’s, except it was really the Book of God and the new revelation from him.
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My friend,
From this important step in our discussion, I discovered that your belief in trinity depends on:
- Some of the verses in the bible are written in plural form which indicates (in your understanding) multiple Gods: but I showed you it’s an articulate language to show respect with the speaker to, and it exists in Semitic languages (also French) and a lot in verses in Quran.
- Some of verses in the bible are written as of talking about God in 3rd person, which also exists in Quran, and it’s language writing, similar when President of USA sign a paper or declaration, and it’s written that: President of USA had ordered to do this and this etc..”, signing on such paper in this language doesn’t mean ever that there are multi – Presidents, it’s only one..
- You assured that all the verses in the Old testament declare very clearly that there is ONE and ONLY God with all prophets mentioned in the bible, starting from first chapters of Genesis..
- We also showed that Jesus never declared clearly in any of his words that trinity exist and he always talked about God or Father God as 2 persons NOT one.
- You also showed that all the explanation of trinity, and focusing on it comes only in Apostles’ messages who lived long after Jesus appearance, and maybe they never meet him.
- I also explained to you many times that there is NO logic reason for God to have a Son, and for what purpose, he is the first and the last, never dies or sleeps, never need to inherit his kingdom to anyone, and he is the one and the only one who can do God’s work and with no need for a help from anyone.
- You also know very clearly that Idea of God’s sons and daughter exit in most of pagan religions before and during Jesus times, as in Greek, Roman, Persian and Egyptians ancient religions, and this what ALLAH warned the Christians and Jews not to do, ALLAH says:
And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of the those who disbelieved aforetime. Allâh's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth![] (30)
They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allâh (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allâh), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilâh (God - Allâh) Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He)[]. Praise and glory is to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." (9:31)
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Exceed not the limits in your religion (by believing in something) other than the truth, and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray before, and who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the Right Path." (5:77)
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What we can understand from all of that:
That there is only One God and Jesus was only a messenger of God and Muhammad is his messenger too..
Finally, my friend,
Sincerely, I invite you to get rid of such belief, it’s only a deception from Satan to let you astray from following the right way to God and honestly I ask you to change to Islam, and don’t waste your time, efforts, and your age in wrong direction, you will be better in Islam, and Muslims need someone like you too..
Please, think about my words again and again and don’t reply immediately as usual, please take your time and think deeply, at end it’s your destiny..
I wish that you accept Islam eventually, but it’s all in ALLAH’s hands..
Verily! You guide not whom you like, but Allâh guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided (28: 56)
Take care,
Abdallah.
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